Hi Mommytalkers.  I have a recent interest in father's rights, especially unwed fathers. 

Before I post some of what I've recently learned, I'm curious as to where you all stand on this issue. 

Do you think that an unwed father should have an automatic right to his child or not? 

Do you think and unwed father has a right to his child if the mother wants to give the child up for adoption or not? 

Do you think that military fathers should lose their parental rights, and or be jailed for failure to pay child support payments because they did not follow the guidelines for visitation and child support while fighting in the current war or not? 

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

I most definetely believe that an unwed father has rights to his baby. I think it also has a lot to do with the situation. If has been in trouble a lot with the law, or is involved in drug use then I think he should lose his rights. I also think the same thing for an unwed mother.

For a father that is in the military, I dont think he should be punished for serving his country. I guess a lot of it has to do with different situations.

Thats just my 2 cents.

It takes two to tango, if you know what I mean.  Although the heavy lifting is done by mom for the first period of time, that is not something that us guys have control over.

Once the child is born, though there is a debt of gratitude (and then some) due the mom, it doesn't reduce the rights, or the responsibilities, of the dad.

 Therefore, a father has, imo, all the rights of a mother, if he chooses to assume them.  Whether he does or does not, he still has responsibilities. The two are related, not mutually exclusive. 

So, if he is unavoidably detained in Iraq, he needs to make arrangements for his responsibilities but he should not be forfeiting any rights. 

By the way, 'father' has nothing to do with 'husband' so 'unwed' is really irrelevant. 

Well put Scarlet's Dad. I gave you 5 stars for that!

TrueGenius said: Do you think that an unwed father should have an automatic right to his child or not?

 

TrueGenius said:

Do you think and unwed father has a right to his child if the mother wants to give the child up for adoption or not?

A father and mother are equal and both responsible for bringing up a child. When a mom says that she doesnt want the dad to be in the childs life its not right. He made that child just as much as she did and it hurts the dad just as bad as it would the mom to leave. True nature does have it that men are suppose to run off after making the child etc. But civilization and especially the feminist movement has altered this thinking and should not only be including the fathers who are wed and the children who were "meant to exist". My baby wasnt made "intentionally" and i know my husband would be distraught if i took her away from him. Its also wrong to the child whether they have achieved a bond or not yet it is robbing them of something that children desperatley need to feelo normal on a daily basis considering school later on in life. If that baby is a girl who will walk her down the aisle one day and if its a boy who will council him on why not to run away the night before his wedding.

If you wanted to take your father away from the child (which is what you are truly doing not the opposite) you should think long term on it before making a decision that could affect the life of your child. 

 A child grows up find without a mother or father , i did, my father raised me.But would i have liked my mother to be in my life. YES!!!!

So i personally think that people who are thinking about doing that need to think long and hard about what they are doing and what kind of a decision they are making.

Why not let your child grow up and then decide for themselves if they want to be around their parents? Children are great at making smart decisions for themselves. But untill they are that old then maybe you should put up a system where they see eachother often and equal rights between the parents.I say remember you may not like eachother but apparently you did at one point.

As to the people who want to take away rights to people who are over in iraq. that is such crud. Sure i think they should still pay the child support etc. but if they cannot make while they are raiding a house with terrorists in it or the government is making them make sure that a mother and children over in iraq are safe and that money may be the last thing on their mind. It should be like a debt when they come back. I know some wont agree that they should have to pay even if they dont see it. But if you buy a car from the car lot and you have put it in your garage and go on vacation or to war you still have to pay the loan on that? Well i'm not saying kids are loans but that its still a responsibility for you. Just because you cant see them because you joined the army with the full understanding that this could happen to you doesnt mean it makes it any easier for a mother of your child to support the child without your help.

 

Sorry that was so long just something i feel very strongly on.

-Mary 

Thanks everyone for your five cents.  Seems like others have as strong of an opinion as I do about this subject.  Let me tell why.  It's a bit long...

My brother recently became a father (in December).  He was never married to the mother and she broke up with him one month after they found out they were pregnant.  At first, the mother seriously played around with idea of terminating the pregnancy.  My brother wanted to keep the baby.  She basically told him it wasn't any of his business.  Shortly after, she decided that she was going to keep the baby, but let everyone else know before she informed him.  He found out through the girls parents.  I say girl, but she's a woman of 30. 

They broke up (they were living together) and the mother literally turned on my brother.  He was only able to see her twice during the pregnancy; thus, never experiencing his little girl grow.  My brother tried getting involved with preparing for the baby, as well as my mother (they live in Michigan), as well as my sister and I (we live in Arizona); but the mother didn't want anything to do with any of us. 

We thew my brother his very own baby shower since we knew that his daughter would basically be living in two households.  Well, were we wrong there... for the time being, anyway. 

When the mother went into labor in December my brother was called at the last minute by the woman's father.  When he and my mother arrived to the hospital, they were greated with being told that they were not welcome in the room and the doctor and nurses were instructed to NOT provide my brother with any updates.  The room was full of the mother's family and friends.

The baby was born via C-section and my brother was allowed to hold her for 20 minutes until the mother came out of recovery.  He then was not allowed in the mother's room to visit with his daugther after that.  The phone went unanswered for days later, and after the baby and mother went home, the door went unanswered for days longer.

We later found out that my brother was not put on the birth certificate and his daughter was not given his last name. 

Since her birth in December my brother has been able to visit his daughter for a total of about 8 hours. 

You may be wondering why he is being treated this way.  Well, the reason why he has been shut out is because he is "irresponsible" in the mother's eyes.  You see, he has over $30K in college tuition loans and growing.  My brother dropped out of college went he first went away to college over a decade ago, but 1 1/2 years ago, decided to go back and finish his degree and get his MBA after that.  Then the pregnancy happend.  The mother wanted him to drop out of college again and work in an $11 hour job with poor benefits in order to take care of his daughter.  She does not think an education is of value.  I'm actually dumbfounded that ANYONE would or could think this.

Anyway, we've hired a lawyer for my brother and have been studying up on case studies and the law.  What we have found is actually very disturbing and a direct violation of my brother's civil rights.

Woman hold the cards when it comes to unwed custody cases.  They can be as ignorant and irrational as they like.  The law is on their side.  So "unwed" is very relevant.  They have a right to refuse to put the father on the birth certificate, keep them out of the birthing room when the baby is born, keep the child away from the father as long as it takes for a judge to rule otherwise.  My brother's future and that of his daughter has to be determined by a judge.  He has NO rights what-so-ever until that day. 

I think what the mother is doing is a blatent form of child abuse.  She is using my niece as a direct and abusive form of control over my brother.  Earlier this week, she would not let my brother take the baby to my ailing grandfather to meet because she "doesn't trust" my brother and thinks that he will "kidnap" her.  He was thrown out of her house when he asked her where she is getting this crap. 

Furthermore, we've found cases where current military men and woman are losing custody of their kids and are being jailed upon retruning from Iraq because they did not live up to their agreement while they were away for 1 1/2 years fighting in a war.  This blows my mind.

We've also learned of cases - as was mentioned here - where men are paying child support on kids that are not their own because "it's in the best interest of the child." 

We've learned of cases where men are living in cars because they cannot afford an apartment or home due to the astronomical amount they are having to pay in child support.

We've also learned of cases where the unweb mother wanted to give the child up for adoption and the father wanted the child, but he had no rights to the child and could not block the adoption.

I'm utterly disgusted with our court system when it comes to father's rights.  The laws in this country need to be changed.  They are archaic and unfair to the father and the child.  If a father is abusive, then prove it.  Don't automatically assume that a father is an unfit parent simply because of his anatomy.  As also said here, it takes to to tango.  There are no immaculate conceptions happending in this day and age as far as I know.  A child has the right to have both parents in her life.  The mother shouldn't get to decide simple because she is unstable. 

My brother started a blog to record his journey.  If you're interested, email me here and I'll send you the link. 

Thanks for taking the time to read and for your thoughts.  My family's journey with this has just begun.  I'll have a LOT to say about this as we go along.

Oh, and pardon the typos.  I'm sure there are more than a few ;-)

So, what's the latest on all this?

I am interested to find out progress also.

I believe if he sues for paternity test he should get it.

Look at Anna Nicole - her ex man did it, granted it is being blocked, but she has money and is out of country.

 No offense, but from sounds of it, she does not sound to educated to have enough money to keep the fight going.



 

no need for them to block the dna test now shes dead

simular story... with my brother. he was having a baby with the wrong women they broke up shortly after getting PG he didn't see her much after that until she had the baby by c section she didn't want him there but her mother called him and he went. he saw his son a hand full of times he paid his child support and took care of business. the child didnot have my brothers last name either after court for child support my brother was granted visitation. after seeing the way my nephew was being raised my brother decided to try for custody she fled the state for almost 2 years we heard nothing his support checks were being mailed to a relatives house and she then cashed them and sent the money on to the mother. my brother hired a PI to find his son. he was in IOWA in foster care.... when my brother spoke to child welfare they told him that he needed to bring his custody papers out and pick his son up... the mother had told child welfare that she didn't know the father. bologna all of her other children went to there fathers 3 other siblings... 3 other dads. I don't know why she would have done that to my nephew or my brother it was a big awful mess. the ending was happy though my brother has his son now and needless to say he suffers from  from the years of neglect.  

I dont mean to change the subject, but someone mentioned Anna Nicole...Wow I dont even know what to think...Such a tragic situation...The poor baby I guess I shouldnt say poor the girl will set financially, but no amount of money can replace your mother.

Things definitely need to change with father's rights.  The current laws protecting these women who are supposedly a better parent just because her parts are different are ridiculous.  I had a close friend who had a crack-head of an ex-girlfriend, and she refused to put his name on the birth certificate for a few months.  All the while he had insurance and wanted to put his daughter on his unsurance, and because this crazy b*tch was drugged out, he couldn't.  He wanted to try to go for custody, but after researching it on the internet, he was too scared after reading stories like those mentioned here.  If things were truly equal, a man would be able to have his child just as easily as a woman (well, except for the whole pregnancy thing). 

A good friend of mine who is a male has been struggling to have contact with his two children for the past 4 years. He divorced his wife cause she was just plain crazy. Im sure there was more to that but right now I can say she is just flipping nuts.

Anyways she was told by the judge 3 years ago that she could not take the kids out of the state of AZ. She told the judge basically that it will be a cold day in hell before he sees the kids again. My friend is one of the most sweetest guys I have ever seen. He loves all of his kids. And he continues to fight for the two who were taken from him. Anyways... She took the kids and hid them from him and even took them to missouri. She came back here without the kids and ended up missing a court date. He was awarded custody of his two kids but she continued to hide them from him. She has made false claims against him and his family calling abuse. CPS has found nothing to support her claims. He hired a PI and this person found the kids and my friend went to get them.

This woman has gone through 3 different lawyers cause nobody wants to represent her. And my friend has the same lawyer he started with. He has lost 3 years of his kids lives and his son has been emotionally damaged by his Mom. She filled her son full of crap that he is full of hate and rage.

This Mom kidnapped her kids, went across state lines and only got a slap on the hand. She spent 16 days for contempt of court. What she did was a felony. Its a federal crime. All she got was 16 days in jail for contempt of court. Good Lord if it was the Dad that did this he'd be in jail for a long time.

He is still fighting for his kids. And he will never give up on them.

relatively speaking, AZ is one of the best states for father's rights. it is so 'good' here, that there are cases where the dad, though not interested in the kids, will file just to provide grief to the mom as a form of abuse and through his atty win time he doesn't want or deserve. quite the opposite of michigan.

in arizona and some other states, claims about the other parent go unheeded unless there is concrete proof of abuse, alcoholism, or addiction. involving the CPS cuts both ways, as do claims of addiction without photos, witnesses, hospital records, etcetera. psych analysis, drug testing and legal review is costly, time consuming, and invasive. better not to go there.

the best thing is to focus on what you are doing and how it will be the best for the kids, never disparaging the other parent in front of the judge. it's all about the kids, and saying 'shes loony' and what have you is contrary to what is believed to be best for kids psychologically, even if she is loony.

the process is long and slow, but the truth usually comes out. the main thing is to provide a positive environment and focus on all the efforts to provide a stable and good home for the kids. also, to be very open to sharing the kids with the other parent, at least with the judge. when you sit with the specialist and they review the case, they will probably give minimum time to the offending parent.

in my case, i accepted joint custody in exchange for custodial rights. mom legally gets 4 days every 3 months, but i let her have as much as she asks for if it is organized and she tells me well in advance. we agreed to amicably divide holidays so we are not bound by court order on that time.

recording conversation where you repeatedly say things like 'can we not argue and find a solution that will be best for the kids' and 'being around both of is good for the kids, as the adults, let's get beyond our differences where the kids are concerned' is a good thing. at some point you will have to take a 'parenting class' which is not how to change a diaper but how to deal with the emotions and the kids and things in separation. taking that BEFORE the court order or immediately thereafter demonstrates your interest, and it has some good information...

i don't know if this will help at all in michigan, but perhaps it could spare some grief for a few dads in a few places.